Q&A With Craig Gray

22 Jan

(Note: this is a reup of an interview I did with SF gtrist Craig Gray in the early 2000s, originally published as part of a larger piece on the godlike TOILING MIDGETS in the now-defunct Die Cast Garden webzine. Yes things have moved on, the band has since reformed and they now even play out occasionally . . . and while I’m not sure why this returns to the web today, I do know my love for all things MIDGET still stands tall. Enjoy.)


M: I think a lot of people have come to see THE TOILING MIDGETS as a kind of SLEEPERS Mk. II. Not only did you have Tim Mooney and Ricky Williams in the fold, but your sound seemed to harken back to THE SLEEPERS late-70s work in tone and complexity. Was this something you guys consciously tried to do, or did THE SLEEPERS tag dog you no matter how hard you tried to shake it, like a piece of wet toilet paper trailing from the bottom of your shoe?

Craig: I first met the Sleepers in 77 when I was in Negative Trend. Will Shatter and I lived in a huge flat at 8th and Howard. People would come over after gigs at the Mabuhay. Michael Belfer and I would play and write together all night. Both bands did songs written by both of us. She’s Fun on the first Sleepers EP was written by me, Michael and Ricky. I actually played a couple of times with the Sleepers as a second guitar. It was just a natural devlopment rather than a conscious effort. I don’t think I was aware of how people perceived us.

M: Similarly, alot of know-nothings liked to lump you guys in with FLIPPER – obviously a product of lazy, provincial thinking. Who did you feel most musically akin to at the time?

Craig: No one. I felt very insular, more connected to the music than the real world. The Flipper thing is just cause of the Negative Trend connection but i never really cared. It was kinda embarrassing.

M: What was a typical MIDGETS gig like? And are legends true about you guys preferring to play with your backs to the audience?

Craig: Typical? I don’t think there was one. Chaos maybe. Yes we played with our backs to the audience, or at least I did. It started at the last ever Negative Trend gig. Rik L Rik pulled a no show so I tried to sing a song. I was so embarrassed I couldn’t look at the audience so I quit singing and turned around. We finished the set instrumentally and I haven’t turned around since.

M: How representative was the Sea of Unrest LP of the MIDGETS?

Craig: Very. As with all of our recordings, they represent us at that particular time.  

M: Who played all those meandering, feedback gtr-atmospherics on that record: you, Paul, or Mick Ronson?


M: How did Ricky Williams contribute and/or mess things up?

Craig: Ricky was our human voice. Yea he was a mess but his voice and his skewed perception were unique. When he sang he wasn’t capable of holding back, and he was what he sang about, an inspired mess.

M: What about producer Tom Mallon? His production on Sea of Unrest is downright apocalyptic.

Craig: Mallon was our interpreter so to speak. He found the beauty in the chaos and helped us shape and define it.

M: During the post-Sea of Unrest days as documented on the Deadbeats LP, in the great tradition of MOBY GRAPE and LYNYRD SKYNYRD you guys had three guitarists. What was that all about?

Craig: Deadbeats was supposed to be a five song EP for Rough Trade. It would have been Preludes, Caverns, Before Trust, Black Idol and a song written by Annie called Richard Speck. Rough Trade changed their mind. Thermidor said they would put it out but wanted an LP. We were pretty much broken up by then (Nov. – Dec. 83) so Tom and I pieced together an LP but Annie didn’t want Richard Speck on it. Great song tho.

M: Annie Ungar impressed me as a kind of West Coast equivalent to THE CONTORTIONS’ Pat Place. What did she add?

Craig: Songs. More sound. A medium ground between Paul and I. Her style was fluid like Paul’s but more rhythmically based like mine. Her tone was different from both of us as well. More slide oriented which gave us more range. It gave me an opportunity to play less of a basic roll and more of a textural one within the music.

M: Why did the original band wind down in the mid-eighties?

Craig: DRUGS

M: A lot really great, regional music scenes were developed and consequently destroyed by shifting economic climates. I’m thinking of NYC in the late 70’s and any number of US college towns in the the 80’s. Did the economic situation in that city at the time play any part in what you guys were able to accomplish?

Craig: SF was a town full of bands then and as we all know the dotcommunists fucked it up. But as they leave the city changes again.

M: Was there ever a moment when you thought, shit, the MIDGETS might just possibly be poised for world takeover?

Craig: Which world?

M: The MIDGETS come-back Son LP (Matador, 1992) was a bright spot in a decade littered with truly tasteless music. Less feral in approach than Unrest, but equally effective in conjuring up vivid, darkly-flickering images. How satisfied were you with this?

Craig: It was a good record. The problem was by the time Matador got the record out we weren’t working with Eitzel anymore and he didn’t want to tour with us.

M: The addition of AMERICAN MUSIC CLUB singer-songwriter Mark Eitzel on vocals must have surprised some folks. How well did he gel with what you guys wanted to do?

Craig: For me it was his best work.

M: A few of us heard tapes of a great, post-MIDGETS project called Wet Ash. What happened with this? What are you and the others doing artisically these days?

Craig: Wet Ash was recorded in late ’89 to early ’90, after I had just returned from living in England for 6 years. It was written by my brother Jason and I. We had a band called LAZY GIANTS and it was on our demo. Mallon recorded and mixed the orchestral version. I have always been writing, playing and recording. I have a G4 based studio at home and just finished soundtracking a short film. Paul and I have been recording online so it continues in a new way.

M: What’s going on with the new album of unreleased MIDGET and/or Ricky W. tapes? Us MIDGETheads can’t wait.

Craig: There’s about three records there maybe four, a Ricky one, and a couple of instrumental records. Tom and I have just started sorting thru the tapes.

M: What is sadcore, and can it be blamed on the MIDGETS?

Craig: HAA HAA

M: And finally – just what the hell is the Microage?

Craig: Where Ricky is.


2 Responses to “Q&A With Craig Gray”

  1. danny g January 26, 2010 at 3:25 pm #

    YES! Nice work. Midgets rock. Midgets rule. Midgets rock and rule.

  2. Graham December 20, 2014 at 4:33 pm #

    nice interview with craig hes a original punk to say the least there hasn’t been a project that he did that i never liked i always prefered negative trend over sex pistols they had a more normal approach and they weren’t pushing the punk image like the pistols were , but why the hate to flipper craig? i guess there was bad blood when will shatter left NT

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